Home Forums The Lounge need advise for tube swapping 6L6 for KT88 !!!!!

Tagged: 

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #81330
    Mr.Grim
    Member

    hello i have a 1981 Studiomaster Valve Leadmaster (VLM) 60W tube 1/12 combo.

    not much is known about these amps, i guess there a bit rare, all i know is in the fallowing links:

    (copy and paste, i dont know why EHX forum messes up the links!)

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richandkris/kellycult/Studiomaster VLM/vlm.pdf

    http://www.studiomaster.com/1981 – 1982.htm

    i know it is saposed to run on 2X 6L6 power tubes and 5X 12AX7 preamp tubes.

    i opened it up so i can get replacements and i found the previous owner had 2 5881 (6L6WGC) from Sovtek for Fender. and 5 Pinnacle ECC81 (12AT7) tubes in there.

    i plan on replacing the ECC81’s with true 12AX7 tubes (new EHX or NOS GE)

    but i want to know peoples opinions on weather i can replace the 6L6’s with KT88’s?

    i know it can be done but will it hurt anything in this amp to just direct replace them?, i dont know anything about “biasing”.

    #114182
    ranjam
    Member

    Just a SWAG; it’ll either be OK or possibly run a little ‘cool’. But I’d get a simple little bias probe type tool and check, and be safe now rather than sorry later. I believe you can run a little more heat through a 6550/KT88, so it should be OK. It’ll have a lot more headroom and probably more bottom end, so let’s hope that’s what you’re after.

    #114191
    Mr.Grim
    Member

    “a lot more headroom and probably more bottom end” sounds great to me!

    thats what i assumed, the KT88’s can handle more power so the will probably run a little cool.

    im not worried about ruining the tubes, i already ordered my 12ax7’s and i ordered both the 6L6’s and KT88’s, so if the 88’s dont sound right or get ruined, im not worried about it.

    so it shouldn’t hurt my amp to run tubes that run a little cool right? im just not using the tubes to there potential?!?! (but it would hurt the other way around tho, if i were to run lower powered tubes in a more powerful amp, but im not doing that anyway)

    any other feedback please?!?!?!

    #114203
    ranjam
    Member

    It shouldn’t hurt a tube to run it cold, but it can sound like crap. That huge crossover notch sounds pretty raspy, and just not good. With a bunch of fuzz you’d never know, but if you play clean at all you won’t like it. But that’s a worst case scenario.
    I believe you can put any tube in any amplifier, or close to it. Even if you put a 6V6 in a Fender Twin Reverb, you won’t necessarily ruin the tubes or the amp. Say there was -52VDC for bias on the Twin, or even -56VDC just for argument. A Deluxe Reverb may have -35VDC for bias with +415VDC for Plate voltage. I believe most Twin schematics show +460VDC, so that bias voltage may be high enough to not kill 6V6’s! Please note I would never do it without first putting the bias as high as possible (say -60VDC or -65VDC) and measuring the idle Plate current. But the point is that anything can be done, and it’s not complete crazy to not worry too much about blowing up an amplifier.
    Try it. You may like it, you may not. You may need to adjust the bias to add some heat through KT88’s, or you may not. But I still say the clean headroom goes up a lot, as does the bottom end. Have some fun, and learn some useful stuff as you go. But you should be using a bias probe, and that will come in handy for future experimenting with output tubes.

    #114207
    C.J.
    Participant

    Yikes. Don’t say you can put any tube in any amplifier! That’s how misinformation gets out there and all of a sudden people don’t know what they’re talking about.

    It’s not all about bias and plate voltage. For one thing, different tubes have difference impedance, which affects the overall output impedance. (If you have an amp with KT66’s, and you swap to EL34’s, it cuts the output impedance by half. so you have to move your impedance selector up one notch. assuming you even have a selector – a lot of amps don’t. otherwise you could potentially damage your tubes and output transformer over time, because of the mismatch.)

    Also, there is the value of the screen resistor. In amps with 6V6’s, it’s usually pretty small… 470 ohm 1 watt. if you’re going to use 6L6’s, you should move that up to 470 ohm 5 watt. if you’re going to use EL34’s, KT66, KT88, you should increase it to 1K ohm 5 watt.

    Then there is the increase in output if you move up to bigger tubes. You really ought to increase the power of your output transformer if you’re going to move from 6L6 to KT88. a pair of 6L6 generally puts out about 35-45w. a pair of KT88 is about double that. that’s great if you want to increase the wattage of your amp, but be sure your output transformer can handle it.

    The other thing I can think of is that 6L6 and 6V6 don’t use pin 1, so a lot of amplifiers use this a tie point for other components (grid resistor, etc). EL34’s and KT66 do use pin one, and it must be tied to pin 8 which goes to ground. it could spell disaster if you put an EL34 in an amp which is not designed with them in mind, for instance.

    These are just some of the reasons you should not put any tube in any amplifier — at least not before you do your homework, and find out what’s going on internally, as well as taking impedance into consideration.

    #114213
    ranjam
    Member

    I said ‘close to it’, and there’s no reason for me to back down. It can be done. I’ve done the 6V6 in a Twin trick, and it works. Tubes have a different impedance, but most of the tubes we use today are close to being neighbors that it doesn’t enter into my mind. And you can load 6L6’s at almost any impedance you want. The old stuff was up to 10K and Fender went down to 4200-ohms. I’ve bought 3800-ohm OPT’s and they work just fine. The power output goes up, and so does the bandwidth and distortion. I’ve measured 6V6 OPT’s anywhere from 6600-ohms down to 5K. I built a 4 x 6V6 amp and used a Twin OPT (which is where I got the 6V6 in a real Twin idea) and it worked. That’s 2100-ohms. Marshall used 1900-ohms. That is too low, even for a fool like me. But anything else? Fair game if you crank the Plate current down to nothing and check everything first before adding heat.
    No, this is where I have more test equipment than God, less common sense than a soap dish, and the experimental curiosity to be dangerous. If you have sense, maybe you aren’t as foolhardy as me, but what you can learn in one evening is worth more than spending a year in front of a computer reading Forum posts. The GEC KT88 data shows 4K for a pair, 460VDC, and generating 100-watts. So maybe, and that’s a big maybe, the power transformer can’t handle the extra filament current, or the Plate current. Biased up properly (no crossover notch), maybe the output transformer can’t……..
    Ah, just measure everything, and maybe you can’t do it. But I wouldn’t say ‘NO!’ until I measured everything. That’s what I do anyway, just to kill a lazy Sunday. Remember many Marshalls came without any Screen Grid resistor at all, and they’ve lived this long. It’s up to tube quality, and how hot you run them. If you measure the voltage drop across a Screen grid resistor, you’ll know if it’s up to the task. Remember, the smaller the value, the less of an IR drop, so lower wattage can be fine.
    Without knowing what Mr. Grim knows, I shouldn’t kept my mouth shut, or at least tempered the answer. But still, if I put the bug in his ear on learning more, then my work here is done.

    #114215
    C.J.
    Participant

    Well, trust me dude, I did not mean to stir up a fight at all.

    you’re right about what you have said. but so am i. technically, a lot of this crap SHOULDN’T work. but a lot of it does. electricity is just magic, when you really bear it out.

    i was just really worried when you said “try any tube in any amp”. because that just doesn’t work. some kid is going to read your post and put EL34’s in his tweed deluxe clone to “get more out of it”, and then wonder why his new tubes are ruined — because he “read on the internet you could do it”.

    most people don’t know how to measure voltage at all, but they can put a tube in a socket. so I was just trying to say “there’s more to it than just swapping tubes.”

    #107074
    Crusty fur
    Participant

    Hi guys,

    I have a Studiomaster VLM (50W MesaBoogie Mk2 clone) that has gone terminal! My amp tech advises that the torroidal transformer is u/s and that, unless I find a replacement, the amp is as much toast as the transformer!

    The problem is, we have no clue as to the spec of the transformer.

    Studiomaster have a few guys from the 80s who remember the amp but the tech-specs have long gone and only hazy half-guessed information remains.

    I wonder whether you could help us out, please? My expertise is limited to “man with screwdriver and meter” level and thus I’d need to be spoon-fed to some degree.

    I believe we need to know:

    1. what are the primary and secondary winding specs?
    2. can a substitute torroidal transformer be obtained (or are we into bespoke re-wind territory)?
    3. is there a suitable external transformer that could be used to sit in the case or hang off the underside of the amp?

    Your thoughts and expertise would be much appreciated. Thanks!

    #117241
    Mr.Grim
    Member

    sorry Crusty fur, but i have no info on this amp even tho i own it.

    it is a great amp and would never sell it, no matter what other amps i may have, it will always be there.

    but it is imposable to get any information at all on this amp, other than the once a year ebay listing of sum one selling one, or the official Studiomaster web page tribute to its existence, and other posts from a handful of owners asking for info themselves on other forums found thru a Google search.

    all i can provide is links to digital copies of the user guide, and a schematic that i found, that may help?!?!

    Manual:
    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/richandkris/kellycult/Studiomaster VLM/vlm.pdf

    link to schematic download:
    http://www.schematicsunlimited.com/download.php?manu=studiomaster&file=studiomaster-valve-leadmaster-amplifier-schematic.pdf

    (if above link dont work or other sites want cash for it, let me know, i have a copy on my PC i could send you.)

    #130869
    hydra
    Participant

    https://gidra-shop24.com/ porno порно

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.