analog always sounds better….but digital effects can do things that would otherwise be impossible.

so my rule is, if it can be done with analog, use analog
and digital is fine to use for all the crazy stuff!

dreamguy…nice post….I would humbly disagree with the notion that once you get a digital pedal righ then it will be the same even 5 years later…

I belive that as we move into 64bits (and what not) eventually we can really get a amp sound with software….

emulations and or modeled stuff is getting pretty good….I am a big fan of universal audio’s stuff….and I would love to give focusrite’s modelled pres/com/eq a try…

at the same time…it seem that a lot of guitar pedal makers are still giving us pretty weak stuff….I would mention the ones I am thinking of but that would be rude…then again maybe roland could do a little better…I won’t mentiuon any others..and I only mentioned roland because I use a ton of thier stuff and have a huge respect for a lot of their gear but some of their pedals….

EHX has always been great and they really put a lot into what they do….no if ands or buts, I just hope they will take as big a step as cost will allow to give us the best quality so the digital stuff will be close to the analog…and in the future maybe even better…

st.bede - 09 January 2010 08:25 PM

dreamguy…nice post….I would humbly disagree with the notion that once you get a digital pedal righ then it will be the same even 5 years later…

I belive that as we move into 64bits (and what not) eventually we can really get a amp sound with software….

Hi st.bebe, I think I didn’t make myself as clear as I could have, because you misunderstood me. I wrote:

dreamyguy - 06 January 2010 03:12 PM

Not to mention that, in the case of a digital pedal, if you put a lot of effort to get one right, you’ll get 100.000 just as right (that was actually mentioned on the interview as well). That means you buy a Cathedral now and another in 20 years, they will both sound exactly the same (in the same rig) and I think that’s a very good thing.

What I meant was that if you buy a first generation Cathedral now and run it through a particular rig, it will give you a sound. Then if you buy another first generation Cathedral after 20 years - and run it through exactly the same rig you did 20 years ago - it will give you the exact same sound.

That would not be the case with an analog pedal (regardless of when you play it), because the sound of an analog pedal is much more organic since every component has its own tolerance/impedance/resistance, etc. Another fact that is little known is that the pots can interfere a lot with the tone and it is vital to select the right pods when producing analog pedals.

Manufacturers nowadays try to minimize the difference of tone from one pedal to another, by choosing components that have the same tolerance/impedance/resistance (I really forgot the term that defines the thing in a single word…). They keep it around 1% these days, but there where times they used 5% or even 15% on purpose, just to give each pedal a very distinct sound, even though they shared the same name.

I believe we are going to see very exciting gear in the coming years, technology has gone wild in the last 15 years. But I still think the guitar gear industry is somewhat stuck, very conservative in my opinion. If there was a bigger market for guitar gear we would have seen gear “out-of-this-world” already a few years back.

Cheers

...for instance…

We have been getting the same effects for decades, some of them being Phaser, Flanger, Chorus, Delay, Reverb, etc. Almost everything we get these days are derivatives or combinations of these effects, which were “created” (I’d rather say discovered) many, many years ago.

Why is it that no one come with a totally different effect? Something called “Tugger” for a change…

korgi - 07 January 2010 06:26 AM

analog always sounds better…

not true.

for example, i have an old Digitech PDS-2715 dual pedal with distortion and chorus.
the chorus part of it is one of the best chorus sounds i’ve ever heard… yet it is a digital effect. i would not even have known it was digital if i hadn’t read the manual.

i’ve used some terrible sounding analogue delays and some great sounding digital ones.

i’m never concerned whether a pedal/effect is digital or analogue; i’ll try it and THEN make up my mind.

i’m not even adverse to using distortion/fuzz - i’ll give it a go; i’m not going to rule things out on (misguided) principal.

Both analogue and digital effects have their pros and cons. It’s up to the individual guitarist to choose what sounds and works best for them. I tend to use both. I like digital delays, but I prefer analogue modulation. Go figure.

As I’ve been reading through this thread, I can’t help but smile at a couple of the posts. Someone mentioned that we’ve been using the same effects for the past 50 years since they were “discovered,” and was wondering when we’re going to get the “next big thing.” What makes me laugh is not this particular comment, but the comment given the general attitude of so many guitarists. It made me realize just how backwards we all are: We demand change, but at the same time stubbornly REFUSE to budge from the old. We want crazy new effects… But only if they use this arcane “analog” technology. Heaven forbid the effects of the future utilize the technology of the future! ... disclaimer: I’m also an analog snob, don’t worry. :D

Someone earlier also mentioned digital pedals seeming to have less output… Thats probably my biggest issue with them as well. Once my tone has been sampled and turned into a number, then scrambled up and processed, then reorganized and spit back out as voltage again, it seems to be a little less lively when it hits my amp.  I guess I’m basically in the camp of “if it can be done without going digital (within reason,) I’d rather keep it analog.” ... with the possible exception of verb and delay. I prefer the softer decay of an analog or tape delay, but the bright, accurate repeats of a digital definitely have uses as well, and the new Cathedral verb? I love me some spring ‘verb… But when was the last time you saw your Fender amp pull off the kind of sick stuff the Cathedral is doin? ... In summary, digital definitely has its uses…

“with the exception of dirt boxes. :D Truer words never spoken, Liberty Belle.

I have a question that is a little on topic.
I went to gc to pick up a stereo mm with hazari and the mgr said gc has seem to stopped ordering them, but had one from another store like 300 miles away and thy could have it next day for me. thy had one locked in the demo area that looked perfect,I asked if i could buy that one,  they said thy couldn’t because it technically didn’t own it. well next day came and thy didn’t get the ship and I needed one to use that day for studio work, well thy took the handcuffs off the floor model and sold it to me. thy said it had bee on for like two years and if I wanted to come back for the ordered on I can. I went home and opened it up and the made date was march 20th 2007.
So my question is…..
Do you think I should go back and get the new one or stick with this great sounding first gen?
And are the old ones made as well as the new ones? (ad/da ect)

I don’t think they’ve change the circuit at all.  At least that I know of.  I got one when they first came out, and I love mine.

the interesting thing about 1st gen digital delays, fm synthesis, all the flavors of stuff that’s widely dismissed as ‘crap’ from the 80’s is it’s a different flavor. The old DOD DFX line and the Digitech RDS/PDS units are building their own little cult followings not unlike analog delays. I’m gonna go out on a limb here but I think that bitcrushed delay is going to be a definite option on modeled pedals (L6/Boss type rot) in the near future. I mean, follow the prices on a PDS8000 on ebay, the only analog delay pedals going for as much as they do are the early Memory Men [Memory Mans? how do you pluralise that?], Ibanez AD9s and Boss DM-2s.

dremeyguy- you know there’s only so much you can do to an audio signal right? I mean you can add harmonics or clip peaks [distortions/fuzzes], repeat a signal [delays, ‘verbs, modulations], drive a filter or oscillator [synth effects] or emphasis EQ curves [eq’s, preamps, distortions, overdrives, etc]. You can combine these any number of ways, but I don’t think we’ll ever have a tugger.

i have both analogue, digital, and tube pedals from ehx, and i think that they are all amazing. some have better bits that others, but each of them are awesome, and i dont think id choose over digital, analogue, tube or anything, so long as it sounds good, thats all im happy with.

i have also heard with digital and analogue delay pedals should run analogue - digital - amp

is this true ?

i know it should be what ever sounds good to you, which i do use, i just wondered what is the “meant to be” system ???

cheers

AshjaahsMuff - 13 May 2010 08:06 AM

i have both analogue, digital, and tube pedals from ehx, and i think that they are all amazing. some have better bits that others, but each of them are awesome, and i dont think id choose over digital, analogue, tube or anything, so long as it sounds good, thats all im happy with.

:clap:

AshjaahsMuff - 13 May 2010 08:06 AM

i have also heard with digital and analogue delay pedals should run analogue - digital - amp

is this true ?

I’ve noticed a lot of people tend to run it that way: analogue->digital delay…
but I pretty much always go digital->analogue…

it’s just a personal preference issue really, but my reasoning is that running a short (analogue) delay into a long (digital) one sounds best to me as the repeats seem to gel together better that way; adding a softer ambience or slapback to the longer digital repeats.

it can also sound good the other way around for rhythmic echoes. but that’s not something I ever do, really.

another reason for going digital->analogue, is that digital effects can be easier to overload;
I’ve done this before while running an analogue delay (with lots of repeats) into a digital delay and it overloaded, distorted and basically sounded horrible. I’ve found analogue pedals much more forgiving in that regard.

There are always exceptions to the rule though; I would generally run a DMM first as the preamp can be quite sensitive… I even tend to run the DMM before my dirt pedals if I’m using it.